Hi Petra<br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 6:22 AM, Petra Dreiskamper <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dreis@xs4all.nl">dreis@xs4all.nl</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Hi all,<br><br>Seeing this whole discussion unfold makes me almost feel sorry I even<br>mentioned the pink elephant at all.<br>
<br>Just for the record: I do not wear make up or even like pink, I just<br>thought that the blue<br>elephant could do with a pink counterpart om my desk. That's all.<br>I certainly did not want to start a discussion on how to best represent<br>
us as feminine geeks: I never meant it to be taken that seriously.</blockquote>
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<div>Oh, I think it's an interesting discussion to have, so I'm glad it was opened. :) </div>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><span id=""></span><br>Apart from that: I guess Lorna is right in saying we're getting sidetracked.<br>
If it's such a costly thing it's perhaps a far better idea to focus on<br>T-shirts or baseball caps and jackets etc. with some really cool logo's<br>or (funny) geeky lines?<br>Maybe even a T-shirt to accompany the cook book?</blockquote>
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<div>All of those are great ideas ... I think we could easily start off with simple things like the PHPW logo, since we have the artwork ready to go for that already.</div>
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<div>One idea that was put forth for a t-shirt was "Codes like a girl," or "Proud to code like a girl" or something like that. I would so buy one of those. :)</div>
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<div>The only custom shops I know of that do the shipping there are cafepress and zazzle... so finding a cheap international version seems to be the obstacle at the moment, right?</div>
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<div>-E.</div>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><span id=""></span><br><font color="#888888"><br>Petra<br></font>
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<div class="h5"><br><br>Lorna Mitchell wrote:<br>> I think the elephpant is pretty much out of our price league anyway,<br>> as Johanna points out, the seutp costs are quite large. Perhaps we<br>> could take a look at the suppliers others have mentioned, and think<br>
> about starting off with getting some ideas for t-shirt designs? I<br>> love all the ideas I've seen but I think we need to just start<br>> somewhere!<br>><br>> Lorna<br>><br>> On 07/03/2009, Elizabeth Naramore <<a href="mailto:elizabeth@naramore.net">elizabeth@naramore.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>>> On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Elizabeth M Smith <<br>>> <a href="mailto:auroraeosrose@shitennou.com">auroraeosrose@shitennou.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>><br>>>>> Just a few comments about reinforcing 'girly' stereotypes in a group's<br>
>>>> emblem.<br>>>>><br>>>>> * Pink: This has been the stereotyped 'girl colour' since around<br>>>>> WWII[0]. Not all girls like pink, and some girls and women will get<br>
>>>> quite offended if it's suggested they wear it, let alone be represented<br>>>>> by it.<br>>>>><br>>>>> * Make up, nail polish: Some girls and women do not wear make up or nail<br>
>>>> polish as they not feeling comfortable about having to alter their<br>>>>> appearance to be accepted, or resent the idea that they are expected to<br>>>>> decorate themselves for the viewing pleasure of men.<br>
>>>><br>>>>> * Bows: Without the lipstick, the bow on Ms Pacman would make her look<br>>>>> like a 5 year old. (With the lipstick, she looks like those 50 year old<br>>>>> women you see in the mall with caked-on makeup, wearing the latest tween<br>
>>>> fashions)<br>>>>><br>>>>> * Jewellery: Of all the girly stereotypes, this is probably the least<br>>>>> girly one. Jewellery such as rings, chains and piercings are commonplace<br>
>>>> for both genders.<br>>>>><br>>>>> The Gnome Women project had the dilemma where their members did not feel<br>>>>> like they'd be taken seriously if they used such stereotypes[1].<br>
>>>> Unfortunately, there's not much you can do to make a footprint girly,<br>>>>> without resorting to nail polish, high-heels, flowers or jewellery, and<br>>>>> afaik they ended up not getting anywhere.<br>
>>>><br>>>>> Personally, I would react unfavourably to a pink or made-up elePHPant.<br>>>>> It just would not speak to me at all.<br>>>>><br>>>>> Taking the above into account, what I would react well to would be a<br>
>>>> chain or leather thread around the elePHPant's neck, with a little<br>>>>> female emblem pendant. You could even do this *separately*, for the<br>>>>> existing elePHPants! Just get the chain/thread size right, and voila!<br>
>>>><br>>>> And quite frankly I would find THIS offensive - to each their own I<br>>>> guess. I find it silly to walk on eggshells all over the place to not<br>>>> offend this group or that group. You won't find something that makes<br>
>>> everyone happy.<br>>>><br>>> I tend to agree with this, and while I understand where Melissa is also<br>>> coming from, I think that there is absolutely nothing wrong with being<br>>> feminine and a geek at the same time. Yes, I wear makeup and nail polish ..<br>
>> but it's not for the viewing pleasure of men (hell, I've been married for 11<br>>> years and I work at home - I have no one to impress ;) ) , I do it because<br>>> it makes me feel good and the makeup covers up my blemishes :). Does that<br>
>> make me less of a geek? Does that make people not take me seriously? I'd<br>>> like to think not.<br>>><br>>> I think putting the elephpant in a big frilly dress with a parasol might be<br>>> a bit over the top, but I also think it's okay to give her a little bit of a<br>
>> feminine bling. :)<br>>><br>>> I also think that there's nothing wrong with breaking the "typical female<br>>> geek" stereotype either :) Xeni Jardin seems to be doing okay.<br>>><br>
>> Just my 2 cents.. if this is something we feel strongly about, maybe we<br>>> could open up discussion on the forums. I think there are some deeper issues<br>>> here that are interesting to discuss besides *just* the color of the<br>
>> elephpant- for me, at least, it's interesting to talk about what being a<br>>> geek girl means to each one of us.<br>>><br>>> Cheers!<br>>> E.<br>>><br>>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>
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